by clairdelalune » 28 May 2012, 17:25
But if you have Lori or Inman or other "experts" talking all the time about HOW a program should be (according to their own interpretation of the rules, of course ) I think FS fans become confused and they don't trust their own judgement anymore. 
by whitebamboo » 28 May 2012, 17:33
clairdelalune wrote:Rules are vague, anything can be interpretated as transitions, even a kiss!
And I believe it's a matter of cultural difference too, people from different places have different approaches.
by whitebamboo » 28 May 2012, 20:42
It is certainly fine to criticize aspects of Plushenko's skating. But I find the use of words in the posts of those who do so here rather interesting. People who criticize him are "stating a fact", but people who defend him are "whining and crying". When he was winning, he was "getting away" with not having certain things, but when Lysacek won, he was "correctly placed" and "undeniable". The prejudice is showing here.
When it comes to Vancouver, the results were controversial, and set off a great deal of debate all over the world (as in, more than just North America), not just about who should have won, but also about the direction of men's figure skating in general. I believe this really isn't just because Plushenko or his supporters couldn't understand, or couldn't accept emotionally, that Lysacek got the gold, but because there really was something to debate here. If it really were just about Plushenko and his fans "whining", I don't think there would be such a major controversy, with the subsequent change in the value of quads, and the change in how many skaters attempt them post-Vancouver.
I don't mind people saying that Plushenko's Olympic programs had less transitions than Lysacek's. However, I think those who say (which I saw fairly frequently) that he had "no transitions" are exaggerating ridiculously, and those who say he had "no choreography" have a very narrow view of choreography. What I consider a double standard is they way some people dismiss the critiicism of Lysacek's lack of a quad (or even a 3A-3T, for that matter) as "whining" or "equating skating with the quad", while at the same time they criticize Plushenko on the matter of transitions, and state--explicitly or implicitly--how he "has no choreography", "isn't really skating", or even "isn't a real skater" because of it. (All of these statements I have seen more than once, and I certain cannot see how any of them is anywhere near "facts".) Personally, when I consider the combination (as you put it) of jumps, transitions, and especially artistry, in both the SP and the LP, then I find the placement of Lysacek over Plushenko by no means "correct", and certainly by no means "undeniable". I understand that some may not agree with the above, and that's fine. In the end, both transitions and quads are just facets of skating--it comes down to a matter of which one of these two very specific technical aspects one considers more fundamental. From what I've seen, I believe that if one looks outside of North America, one would find many more in support of Plushenko's view.
It is mentioned that there are "a number of skaters who have developed incredible transitions, as well as competent jumps". (As I was copying this sentence, I was a bit struck by the use of adjectives here, and I wondered if a certain view was being suggested. Transitions should be "incredible", but jumps need only be "competent", perhaps?) However, I agree with one of the posters above--having a quad was what it meant to have competent jumps in the past, and given the way things are now, personally I wouldn't mind saying that this is what it means once more. In this sense, I suspect that down the road, Vancouver may very well be seen as an anomalous time in men's skating. As for the seasons after 2010, as far as I can recall, the number of skates in competitions where a skater jumped quads successfully, had a lot of transitions, and managed to skate cleanly have been rather few and far in between (note that I'm not saying it never happens). (One can also throw in artistry here, though that's subjective and perhaps beyond this discussion.) So in this sense, I would rather say that from a technical point of view, men's skating in general is still only attempting to combine transitions with high-level jumps, and it remains to be seen how things will turn out.
I appreciate the fact you phrased some of your criticism of Plushenko's skating and artistry as your own opinions, as much as I disagree with them. When it comes to artistry, there is always subjectivity involved. However, when it comes to statements about how you feel that "he thinks he can go out on the ice, say "I'm Evgeni Plushenko so I should win"", then I must say that I think it is rather disrespectful to suggest that one knows what goes on inside his head (or any other skater's, really). The fact that you don't personally see his artistry should not imply he doesn't care about it. Or that he doesn't care about "having a complete program", because you don't think he has one, especially given that many people consider that he does.
There is nothing wrong with criticizing his skating or saying that you're not a fan of his style, but I find it rather objectionable to project one's own notions onto the minds of others, and especially onto someone who has fought so immensely hard to accomplish what was considered by many to be impossible until it actually happened (namely, to return to competition after 3 years of absence, and to stand on the Olympic podium once more), and who, incidentally, was by no means in anywhere near the best of physical conditions while doing so. This last sentence is not to make you acknowledge what a wonderful a skater he is, but to say why I find statements to the effect that "he thinks he should win because he's Plushenko" or "he doesn't care about having a program" (which I have seen repeated more times than I liked, after Vancouver) to be both disrespectful and false. There have been other Olympic champions who have returned to competition in the past, who have done less well than him, but if one of them fell on a jump in a post-return competition, for example (and merely as an example), I don't remember people suggesting it was because he didn't care or wasn't trying.
As for transitions, I think he can add in this particular aspect, but I don't think it is fair to claim that he had *no* transitions. And in fact, he already has added in this aspect, when one looks at his programs this past season. In the end, everyone can and should always try to improve on some aspect of his or her skating--that's what the sport is all about, and if you actually look back over what Plushenko has said and done over his career, that is what he has always tried to do. So once more, I believe that to claim that it has anything to do with how "now that he knows he can't just rest on being Evgeni Plushenko" is really only a matter of what's inside one's own imagination.
by let`s talk » 28 May 2012, 20:44
clairdelalune wrote:Rules are vague, anything can be interpretated as transitions, even a kiss!
And I believe it's a matter of cultural difference too, people from different places have different approaches.
by whitebamboo » 28 May 2012, 20:44
by clairdelalune » 28 May 2012, 21:17
let`s talk wrote:And I believe it's a matter of cultural difference too, people from different places have different approaches.
[/quote]
If in my country, for example, there are FS followers very found of the Canadian style of skating, who think the current interpretation of the IJS brought a major improvement to FS , what could I ask from people born and raised in N/A who listen all the time to N/A commentators?by cekoni » 30 May 2012, 00:11
Aleksandra wrote: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article. ... y=ice_news
Camerlengo collaborates with Plushenko, Mishin
PSA Choreographer of the Year adds transitions to Russian legend's 2012-13 programs
By Lynn Rutherford, special to icenetwork.com
by cekoni » 30 May 2012, 01:01
Tatjana Flade @Tatjana21:
https://twitter.com/Tatjana21/status/207571105177796609
@PlushenkoNews I chatted with Evgeni and will write about him in the next issue of "Pirouette" magazine and probably other publications
by Вера » 22 Jul 2012, 17:01
by cekoni » 22 Jul 2012, 19:39
Вера wrote:"Кольца судьбы". Фильм НТВ к ХХХ летним Олимпийским играм.
Есть небольшое интервью Жени. В основном в 1 части - 34:15
Фильм полностью:
http://www.ntv.ru/peredacha/Koltza_sudb ... 0/o106498/
...
Return to Всё о Жене || Everything about Evgeni
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests
